What about social interactions that are not with friends? But more acquaintances or in a blog network? How does social interaction work here?
I've generally found that blog posts on personal journals usually elicit one of three responses:
- affirmation and validation (yes you are right)
- disagreement (well no, did you consider points 1, 2 and 3?)
- Trolls (you're an idiot, you're a downer, how dare you?)
So what do you do and how do handle it if you are expecting one response and get another?
I never expect trolls. I tend to post my personal thought on network or friend-only basis rather to "everybody" so the trollish behaviour is kept to a minimum. I admit I don't deal with trolls well. I really don't have much tolerance for people who cannot or will not form proper sentiments or constructive arguments so I tend to block them, ban them, and otherwise ignore them. How do you deal with trolls?
If I'm expecting dissension and get affirmation I personally feel confused, humbled and happy. Means I'm not as off base or antisocial as I usually think I am. It may also mean that I am consorting with people who share my prejudices :) How do you react in this situation?
If you expect affirmation and get dissension ??? Now THAT is what defines you as a person! The way I seem it there are usually three types of responses to this situation:
- Ignore them and talk to those who agree with you
- Engage them in debate (I see your point, but was basing my post on a, b, and c assumptions)
- Act like a troll (You're an idiot, you're a downer, how dare you?)
Every person has the right to act how they want on their own blog - that's why you have your own blog! But this is like all other forms of social interaction - how you act is how people perceive you and respond to you.
If you act like a troll, even on your own blog - I will stop reading your blog. I don't have tolerance for people who behave like that. I'm sure you can continue even without my scintillating input :) :)
Social etiquette, fear and sometime sheer confusion can allow us to ignore the dissenting reasoned argument. I've never understood that!
I've always been interested in well thought out considered differing opinions to mine! Sometime I change my own opinion based on this new insight, sometimes we can agree to disagree, but to me the important thing is I have LEARNED something.
And isn't that exciting? Isn't that why we converse ????
So what about you? Do you post expecting affirmation and behave like a troll when you don't get it? Do you post simply to see your own thoughts on the screen? Or do you post in the hopes of stimulating intelligent conversation with your readers?
- Is there a base flaw in my assumptions and arguments ???
- How much do you feel constrained by social etiquette when confronted by these situations?
- How much are you fearful of being judged by your opinions and actions?
25 comments:
Wow! Extremely interesting thoughts... Why do I have a blog? Sometimes to just document my world, life, happenings, dumb things the kids do... sometimes to check with my friends to find out if I am off base in my thinking on something that I read or had happen to me and mine... But the underlying point is, I have a blog for myself.
I don't like trolls. I don't think I've ever been a troll to anyone, at least not intentionally that I am aware of. Trolls are mean. I subscribe to one of two trains of thought - "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" or "is this something that can be constructive and develop into a more deep conversation?" Usually it's the first one because it's easiest.
I don't expect trolls either but the fact of the internet is that there are some people out there who seem to derive a sort of perverse pleasure in trying to bring others down. I too look for healthy debate, I particularly look for in when posting fanfic (which I do elsewhere). Affirmation is nice too. :-)
Look, I'm just a friendly person on who's site you've shown up.I am not subserviantrnt nor cohersive..If you don't want to hook up with my multiply site that's ok Good luck with what ever you do,I wish you well, I think...
Pam
The word troll as it's used here was new to me 'till recently. Came across the term and had to get someone define it for me. Now I have an inkling of what you mean I guess in some respects you could describe me as such.
Let me explain a little. My own blogs are mostly light weight and non controversial. This is because I do not read enough current affairs to form an opinion of my own, as do the political bloggers out there (well at least I hope they do). Or, and this is probably the bigger reason, I see no point in courting controversy.
All that said, and this is where the accusation of trollism (if that be a word) can be laid, when I come across something I disagree with I'll say so (usually) especially if the writer is factually wrong. On especially controversial subjects I've been known to weigh in and make my point and make it forcefully. There is no excuse for doing so rudely though, indeed keeping ones cool while the protagonist loses theirs can be most pleasing.
So, I don't expect a response in any form from my writing, it's to anodyne for that and any response is a surprise mostly. People who are rude or behave in a manner I find uncomfortable with are at the least ignored and sometimes deleted and ignored. That said, this to me is an open and free media and I feel no need to censor anyone and hope that no one feels the need to do likewise to me. If this maketh me a troll then so be it.
Oh, and I ment to add that I find your pages interesting and on occaision the debate lively and constructive. As for our drinking sessions in the TAP, well long may they continue.
Hi Jim, No you've misunderstood trollism I fear. In this context, a troll is someone who displays negativity against a person *without* justification.
Think back to school yard:
Kid 1: C is the best soccer player ever.
Kid 2: Well X scores more goals and Y makes more saves, so wouldn't they be considered better?
Kid 1: You're dumb!
Kid 1 is being a troll with his last statement. He is not refuting the argument - he is putting down the person who disagreed with him. This is a troll. Somebody who attacks the person not the argument, and does not give reasons for his/her putdown.
Guilty as charged on occaision I'm afraid. I'm glad to say not on your pages though.
Sometimes I come across people who are so far beyond the pail that they need to be challenged. As the debate prgresses it sometime becomes clear that they're not playing with a full deck as it were. When I realise that it's a choice between winding them up or leaving. Depends on my mood which I choose.
Making a point forcefully is fine - if you are discussing the topic and not the person. I love someone who points out where I am factually wrong - it helps me learn :)
I'm even happy to agree to disagree (especially on something like US politics where Obama's international policies make me happy, but his domestic policies do not make my US friends happy) I can see both sides of the argument and we can each believe most fervently - but there is no put down. There is no-one saying "you're dumb" "why are you so negative" "lighten up".
Does that explain troll?? Sorry I didn't realise that I had used jargon that not everyone understood - bad writing on my part.
No need for the appology Mel. I know I went a bit off topic, often do.
Back on topic, there is no reason to be rude or insulting to disagree. Those who are simply display their ignorance and probably poor education as well. And I do not mean to imply that a poor education means that a person will be rude.
I definitely have to discuss some contentious issues with you over a few pints at a pub someday - sounds like it could be fun :) :)
But it wont be for a little while - I'm about to move across country :)
Completely understand - we are on the same page here :) :) :)
I'm looking forward to a pint of three with you while we put the worlds problems straight.
I take it the move means a new job?
Not yet - but a better chance of getting one in this "Global Financial Crisis". Will pop in separate blog.
Interesting thoughts, Mel. I'm probably too simple to even think about that kind of things, I just try not to be unnessessarily offensive.
Disagreement is one thing, but changing the disagreement on a subject to the object is simply poor upbringing and self-education.
The other part in me that rather says nothing than something unkind comes from the viewpoint that opinions are just that and each person has a different one from mine, even if they agree with mine. It's one of the many things where you have to start from the idea that there are many shades of grey between white and black and that each and every poster in blogs also has good or bad days. When we have a good day we are probably more ready to be tolerant and when we have a bad day we should simply stay away from commenting in a blog.
But even trolls are human, just obviously rather inept humans...
Jim, I have never noticed any trollish behavior on your part. I think your funny. You tease people (especially Claire that I have seen, LOL), but never hostile.
Mel, you and I are much alike. I like debate but not conflict, and I do believe the 2 are very seperate. I like seeing other people opinions, and like you, I can scratch my head and go "huh, your right. I never thought of it that way."
Now, I also like to expresss my opinion. Often. I also love facts and statistics, but when you throw them into a conversation, people often get annoyed.
The only people who really get under my skin are those who say "Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but yours is wrong because it differs from mine."
As far as why I blog, well, it is because I was cluttering up other areas of topic with off-topic stuff and most of my 'buds' are on Multiply, so I started polluting this space instead (grin).
Again, guilty as charged. But then I do expect nothing less than that in return. Also I hope I never hurt anyone in any way.
And you see how we pick on Gothy (ask her about the dress I picked out for her sometime). But she still loves us. Or is plotting our downfall, but I am pretty sure it is the first one, LOL.
Can't it be both ??? :) :) Love you both!
OK, so I'm asking, as instructed, about the dress? What gives?
Well you know I'm GOTH tigger right? And I tend to wear all black most days and I really detest pink and really girly frills and bows ???? {shudder}
Well Sisu found this dress that was the epitome of everything I detest .... I told her I would wear it if she hand delivered it to me.
I think Sisu might still have the link somewhere. The dress seared my eyeballs I had nightmares for weeks!
We need to see the evidence.
Unfortunately no, I don't still have the link. I told Mel it was for her to wear for the get together a few of us had planned. And Mel is right, it was every cliche of a frilly pink dress magnified ten fold. It took me forever to find it too. Just the right dress.
But I did attempt to find another one for you Mel.
This: http://tinyurl.com/c5oq7w
or this?: http://tinyurl.com/cyqg6d
I didn't know how much leg you like to show.
I actually would wear the first. The second would have to wait until I dieted a LOT more - oh and that I accidentally trip into a dye pot on my way through the room :)
If I'm right - I'm right. If I'm wrong - I wait til I'm proved wrong before I admit to it.
If somebody else is wrong - I have no problem telling them they're full of shit, or if they're right I give them validation.
No point in calling a spade a shovel. I will try to spare a person's feelings, but only if I think they're worth sparing.
I like your thought provoking blogs, Mel. I feel like you tackle a variety of topics with a wide range. Sometimes I can tell you're just really frustrated and need to get things down on virtual paper.
My blog is generally sadly neglected. I think my fear is that someone will read it that I don't want reading my stuffs. This is really quite silly because I don't think those people actually care enough about me to read my blogs. When I disagree with what someone says, I try to say so in a polite way. If I get a snarky remark from it, I try to just leave it alone and not post anything further. I'm not highly confrontational. I will hang in there with a bad situation until it's so unbearable that I just explode then I feel guilty for not taking care of matters sooner so I avoid a further confrontation. Then, one of two things happens. 1) If the person involved is also not confrontational, it all just goes away but without resolution. 2) If the person involved is confrontational, I end up trying to explain my situation and then worrying if I've done the right thing. Then, if they don't acknowledge my response, I question how I've handled things. I'm just not the kind of person to try to hurt someone and I'll take way too much just so someone else won't be upset.
I suppose what I should do is just post regularly and not worry about it so much. Trolls are trolls (and Jim, you've not been a troll on anything I've read) and while I hope I never attract them, I'm sure it will happen at some point. My goal is to not offend anyone but I'm always hoping to get replies when I post. It doesn't always happen but I always hope. Sometimes my posts go in a completely different direction than what I've thought they will. For example, read my post, "Do You Do Lent?" and see what kind of fun replies I've gotten. I think a lot of my friends have probably not read it, thinking that it will only apply to 'religious' people. It has instead had some fun, quirky replies and some replies with people talking about using the time period to make some positive lifestyle changes.
So, I'm a rambler. It's time to stop! Thanks, Mel!
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