BAPXS no longer feels like my home on the web.
I feel like I'm being attacked (or at least put on the defensive) becuase I'm a non-Christian, non-child friendly single woman who prefers to live with her cat than humans.
As you know I've have kept most of my recent ups and downs off the group completely. I've barely posted to BAPXS except to respond to something written specifically to me.
I just don't feel that that the group and I mesh anymore.
Has the group changed or have I?
I've handed over WW to Kay and as you've seen I haven't bothered with a Monday enabling update for a few weeks. Seriously considering leaving the group as I don't feel I belong anymore.
I'm *not* posting beause I want a flurry of "Mel we love you, Mel please stay". That's not the purpose.
The purpose is to let you know that I am seriously considering leaving. But I do want to ask - has the group changed or have I?
I can't answer that myself - so I would like to hear other people's opinions. Serious answers please .....
229 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 229 of 229Hmmm - in all seriousness I just read this:
http://kateharding.net/2008/07/02/meta-why-im-such-a-bitch/
I think this is something that applies to all moderators!
Please read and let me know what you think ???
Mel.
LOL. Oh, that would have been funny to see the reactions. You instigator you!
Oh Good Grief Charlie Brown - where do I begin ????
OK read my blog rant on freedom of speech and then catch up with BAPXS ....
I backed out of all moderators discussions on these issues after my blog rant as I knew I could not be objective on this issue anymore ....
You mean the one I used the last time the list pissed me off??
Yes, grasshopper, you did good.
"shorter version? My house, my rules."
Well, you do call it Claire's lounge.
Fourth rule: If you even fucking mention “free speech” with regard to my comments policy, you will be banned. But if you want to play in my sandbox, you need to not piss me off.
Fifth rule: Polite disagreement doesn’t piss me off.
Seventh rule: I really don’t give a rat’s ass if you don’t understand why your comment was deleted, your account was banned, >>>
Yup....People need to remember that the group has owners. Those owners have the right to do whatever they choose with the group without including any adult content or flag burning.
I agree with that. I find that I'm very often even too civil, because I try not to insult, hurt or offend someone (unless they try to sell me something I don't want, like religion), but basically it's either you come in because it sounds interesting and if you do, you play by the rules or you go away again. It was very curageous from Mel to say that the non-religious on BAPXS are in the majority, personally I don't believe that, but we may have a lot of lurkers who don't bother...
See, me with my blinders on again...........I seriously never even thought about religion when I picked this STITCHING group. My main interest in this list is stitching, I couldn't care any less if you worship anyone or everyone. Show me some pretty stitching and enable me to the point DH wants to ban me from even muttering the word stitching and I'll be happy. lol
Sounds good to me.
BTW, the mug shot of you and Renee on the lounge group is just lovely. Nice to see you.
Thank you Claire, it was a fun night and I'm glad to have that picture to cherish for years. :)
I worded that very carefully. I said that active Christians were the minority in the core group of members.
Ie in *our* group, those that most often contribute and make the list the home that it is, are not the ones pushing their version of God down our throat.
I'm sick to death of Christians of any flavour thinking that they are majority and they have to "cater" for those pesky tiny individuals that are "not us".
Sorry but among my friends and on this list - YOU are the minority !!!! You are the pesky annoyances we are supposed to cater to .....
Mmmm - I need to play some Green Day methinks .....
Chorus:
I wanna be the minority
I don't need your authority
Down with the moral majority
Cuz I wanna be the minority
Spot on Shawn !!!! That's *exactly* what we want the list to get back to !!!!!!!!!
Thank you {{{SHAWN}}}}}
Oh, I love that, love it, love it, love it!
and I'm fighting to type with a big cat on my left arm who wants to cuddle and not let mummy type
That's pretty much what I was after, as well. And the OT list for parallel stuff - books, food, etc.... I'm pretty sure if I wanted religious or political debate, a google search would find me plenty of those (prol'y under Flame War).
alt.net.hamsters.ductape
Sorry *very* very old Bulletin Board joker. It where we sent the trolls .....
Gosh I really really REALLY would love Karen and Shawn to post their comments on the BAPXS list PULEEEZE ????
Hmmmm.....
Shawn said she would - but only if the Mods were sure - so I'm leaving that one up to you Claire - I don;t want to get anyone else into trouble.
However do notice the only people abiding by the new rule are the nice people!
I wouldn't have a problem reposting my comment, except I expect all the people it would primarily be aimed at are already gone - unless we still have some on the fence...? What I'm really waiting for is for a nasty comment to pop up over there in the Ink Circles set.
I would not be surprised to hear comments about this popping up on other lists.
I was personally sent a very vitriolic letter from David Trower this morning stating in part:
"REMOVED ON EDIT (see below)"
What concerns me is that he quoted three other members (or former members) of the list who supported him. Combine that with the comments Sisu has made that people have contacted her off list to try and enlist her support for their cause and I'm starting to worry if this will hurt other members of BAPXS.
We made Rule 5 to make BAPXS a better place for all - not for a rebel group to try and gather support from other members to attack the group. If *anyone* is feeling harassed by any person who is still a member of the BAPXS list over this - please let us mods know.
If you are are feeling uncomfortable enough to want to leave the group - especially let us know !!!!
As you say most of them have left BAPXS and in my opinion most have left full of bile and anger. I doubt we will see them start in on Inkcircles because it was a BAPXS offshoot and is still run by the same people that run BAPXS (ie Claire, me, Tina Mariann?)
I do expect them to pop up and spew bile on other groups.
On a personal level this doesn't really worry me. I know if I step out of line, you, my friends here will tell me! I will listen to you and re-evaluate my thoughts and opinions and behaviour.
So please tell me if/when I am out of line !!!!
I wont listen to people who are upset because I countered his (well thought out took three days and sent past 3 other people to check) email with one I dashed off in 5 seconds running out the door.
And finally yes I being a hypocrite. I am planning on taking David to task for quoting other people and their words in the email he sent to me *without ccing those people*. It could well be that their comments are being used by him alone to fuel his hurt and outrage.
And I am doing the same thing here - I have taken part of his email and quoted it here without ccing him in - hence I'm a hypocrite :)
Heh - what he failed to take into account is that the owner feels exactly as you do, and you have the owner's support. And the fact remains, these are privately owned lists, regardless of the fact that they become a public forum for their members. But members are members at the pleasure of the owners, it's not an automatic right. And in addition to the comment that one can feel free to use a delete key, one can also feel free to unsubscribe if one does not agree with the rules or owners/moderators of a group.
Don't worry.....I'm sure someone will let you know if you step out of line. lol Though I'm not sure I'll feel that way anytime soon. I'm good at the agree to disagree thing. David sure did make a point to let us know how upset he was...wow! To have the energy to write that, I barely stayed awake reading it. Everyone has moments of being a hypocrite, personally I think it goes along with being human. Some are that way for little things and then some have huge issues....the cc'ing thing.......small, so no worries!! :) Like Paula said, you've got Claire and the other mod's on your side...he's free to leave, I'm sure there are other lists out there that will suite him and his fellow offended.
Its not so much as on my side I'm worried about. If I'm out of line I know you guys and the mods will tell me and I will take whatever steps are deemed necessary.
Just remember he was a pure lurker up until a couple of weeks ago and now he's making demands on who should be a moderator and how the list should be run ???? I don't think so.
I will admit to being somewhat peeved when reading his missive which was more of a "I have lost all respect in you" and then insisting that I be removed as mod. But on further reflection, he is outraged that we are not taking his feelings into account and he is lashing out.
That's all it is - lashing out. I should not have posted that segment here. But what's done is done.
Nothing will done in response until Claire wakes up because as we all agree it is her list. Not David's. And frankly yes, if he is that hot under the collar he can leave. We are not forcing anyone to be here who does not want to be. And if he is that *outraged*after posting for only a couple of sdhort weeks, then a faith-based list might suit him better.
Mel - changing music and then off to stitch again .....
If they do we simply close down that list or hand it over to one of them. None of us four is all too active on the list anyway, are we?
As far as being hypocrite goes, I think, none of us can avoid that completely, but the level of hypocrisy is usually highest with Christians and Muslims, where their beliefs and moral attitudes are concerned. It is STANDARD for them to have double standards.
I've only just read your proposed reply to David's VERY wordy and lengthy diatribe. That's another typical thing - making a sermon out of an e-mail!!!!
OK I'm going to be a grown up here.
I'm going to publicly - (well to this group here anyway) formally retract my request for comments to be made to the list. Although I personally dislike that the arseholes are only ones posting on this topic, it is usually on their way out the door and there is no point keeping this stirred up.
Two. I'm going to edit and remove the segment I posted of David's diatribe above. It was hypocritical of me and I know how I felt when he inferred he was discussing his lack of respect for me as a person with his friends on and off the list.
Three. I'm not sorry to say that I hope he rots in his version of Hell. (I'm human - bite me!)
Four. I am not going to extrapolate his behaviour out towards others. However his attitude does nothing to make me re-examine my own dislikes and prejudices.
You addressed that one perfectly well in stating that the list is owned privately and so the rules are set to suit the needs and wants of the owners and moderators, and not to possible members. After all you create a list to find *like-minded* people! Obviously his like-mindedness is limited to the fact that he stitches. That's sad, but not much to do about it. Brought up indoctrinated, didn't learn much to gain a distanced opinion and probably very much unable to accept other views, how much he claims to do that.
I found his first mail condescending, his second very petulant.
Smoooooooooch, Mel!
You ARE a grown-up. I feel the same way about them having the last word, but at the same time I'm afraid our readiness to let things be is what gives them power.
Big hugs to you, my friend, because you're the one who had to ride it out this time!
It was my own fault Mariann - I jumped and sent him off a reply. I did *not* want Claire feeling like she had to - she had enough on her plate that day and I have broad shoulders.
The fact is I really *don't* care about David and his like. I get worse abuse from my staff at work regularly. I didn't want Claire copping it all.
What I *do* care about is my fellow mods and the core group of BAPXS. If I had received that diatribe from a long-term core group member, then I may have even voluntarily stepped down as mod. Because we are here for us, all of us. Now we may not all agree on every little aspect, but hopefully there is enough live and let live, that when all this dies down and all the extremists are gone, we can go back t the family feeling and back to chatting like ourselves again - regardless of the topics.
Exactly! And that's why I sent the denial to that person who found us in spite of being an unlisted group...
Jeez, I got to sleep for 8-9 hours, and look what I miss....
What would you think if I just added a couple of small unsolicited observations to my weekly update?? I can run them by you first. It'll be tomorrow when I do my update, as usual, though I'll be home instead of at work :) Maybe if I, a casual observer as far as most of the non-core group is concerned, make light of the situation, everyone will lighten up a little bit, and maybe we can avoid any further unpleasantness....
Could work - would depend on the wording and I will definitely leave the final say to Claire :)
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